CARME LLASAT

INTRODUCCION OF THE QUESTIONS
Hi, we are girls from the Cor de Maria school and we would like to ask you some questions about your professional life.
Good morning.

Good morning, the first question is about your present job.
I’m a professor of atmospheric physics at the University of Barcelona. Therefore, my job is research and teaching.

SCHOOL LIFE
What were your school years like in elementary and high school?
Generally, I really liked to study and learn. And I got very good grades, both in primary and high school, and the idea that I had about what I wanted to be at that time, my dream, was to be a member of the Royal Academy of the Arts, and a painter.

STARTING IN THIS AREA
I mean, did you know you wanted to be a scientist at the time?
No, not until I got to the fourth year of “batxillerat”, which was when I was 16 years old, my idea was to dedicate myself completely to history, because I really liked it but when I started the fourth of “batxillerat”, they asked us who wanted to study the Arts and who wanted to study science and I said the Arts and they said to me, something that was very typical: `Not with what you know´, and also something unpleasant, `You are a nerdy person with few communicative or relational skills, you have to dedicate yourself to science´. I liked maths a lot and my father likes science, so I said: No problem, I’ll study science at school and I’ll study Latin and history myself. At this moment, my vocation was drawing, I really liked
drawing and it’s still my hobby. I’m very passionate about history but I choose the Science-based “batxillerat”, but I wasn't quite sure this was my vocation, I mean, when I was younger I don’t have idea I would dedicate myself to the study of the meteorology, which is what I've ended up doing, I liked science, and I liked the Arts, I liked everything, I liked gaining
knowledge and art as well. So, first I wanted to be a geologist, and for a long time I wanted to be a mathematician. Until I
was in my last year, COU, you enter when you are 16 years old, and at the school I went to, the teachers were very important, the maths teacher didn’t convince me, I didn’t like the way he taught, I didn't like it the way he presented it but on the other hand, the physics teacher, he convinced me more and I decided on physics. But a thing I realised at this moment, was that I wanted to be a teacher, and I said: I’ll study to become a teacher and they said, `No, you have to do a superior degree and they showed me other degrees. One day, they took me to see a professor of geophysics and this professor enthused me, I liked him a lot and I said: ok, I want to know how the Earth functions and I started to study Physics, to understand the functions of the Earth, earthquakes, volcanoes, and so on. Also, when I was in the last year of the degree, the difference between the geophysics and the atmospheric physics professors, helped to make my final decision, so I studied atmospheric physics, which is the study of the weather.

Do you think that teachers, at this time, treated boys and girls differently in the subjects of mathematics, science, technology?
I first studied at a school called Las Vedrunas, which was a girls school and I come from an previous time, that is, I come from a time when the subjects you studied at school when you were little. Boys and girls did different subjects, because girls did jobs and boys did not do jobs, we did something else, girls did gymnastics that was much softer and boys did gymnastics that was much harder, that was one difference. But it was not the same when I arrived in COU, the first time that I was with mixed studies, I was 16 years old and there we were 5 girls, it seems to me, in class and 30 boys because it was a school that was previously only for boys, it was a Jesuit school, which was later mixed, but at that time only the COU was. In COU, I didn't notice any difference, basically because we were very few girls and they treated us very well. I did the science COU, and of my colleagues who did science subjects are now engineers and we are talking about a long time ago because I finished the COU in 1976 and finished my degree in 1981. Already in 1976, from The girls who I studied with, one was a director of the Barcelona metro and now she is the director of the Lima metro, another of them is a professor of chemistry, that is, of those who did COU with me all of them are currently in different fields of engineering or science in a university or a company.

HIGHER EDUCATION
Did you choose the job you have now freely because you liked it or because of the money and the fame you could have?

No, neither fame nor money, because initially I was very shy, I had to overcome my shyness and I have fought hard to overcome it since I was 16 years old, therefore, not fame. I chose precisely the studies I did, which are not necessarily linked to earning a lot of money, so it is not to earn a lot of money, but because of the vocation of teaching and the desire for knowledge, the desire to know things. As I have said, that starting with what I wanted to do as a child, when I wanted to be a historian but life is very curious and therefore, if you have a vocation, you can follow a path and therefore, since my degree , when I have had to do research, I have done it about historical climatology, that is, how the weather was in the past, how the weather has also influenced history, therefore, you can always find your own way but really it was neither for fame nor obligation nor to earn money.

What university did you go to and why did you choose it?
Well, I went to the University of Barcelona and I chose it, because in my time you were assigned to a university, and with my studies, physics, it seemed to me that there were only two possible universities, the University of Barcelona and the Autonomous University of Barcelona. Physics is not a degree which is offered in many universities because they do not have so many applicants, despite the fact that an increase in physics students has been found since they started broadcasting a series, which is known as "The big bang theory and this has caused the number of students who want to do physics to skyrocket and this degree had a very low cut-off mark, because nobody wanted to do physics and now it has a very high cut-off mark. But I had to choose between the Autonomous University of Barcelona or the University of Barcelona, and since I live in Barcelona, ​​it suited me well.

Did you have to work while doing your degree?
I got my degree while working, because I was teaching at the school where I had done COU and then, from the first year of my degree I was teaching chemistry. So, I had to work long hours because I had to combine my degree with my teaching job which, on the other hand, I really enjoyed, because I was teaching men and women who were practically my age, therefore, I made many friends. So, I realized that what is important to get a degree is a certain discipline. I always said to myself, I will do it very well, I will dedicate few hours, but I will be 100% dedicated to it, and from this discipline and effort, I could get my degree.

EQUALITY
When you wanted to do this degree, did someone around you tell you to do something else instead?
No, I think not. I did not receive any complaints, I told them and they thought it was very good.

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How many women were there in your class, approximately? And how many men? 

Let';s see, physical I don't remember it very well because, it must be recognized that as there are degrees that then there is the border and everything, when I studied there were neither borders nor dinners, and since it is necessary to study and work a lot, human relationships are not so looked after but I think physical it was very close, and it currently remains approximately the same, 50% are women, half more or less, are women. And on my course, maybe we did not reach to half of the students, but 40% were, think that there are few students in physics.

How many women finished? How many men?
When I did the degree, which was many years ago, I had friends who left the course because they got married and then, they found work, therefore, of the people who started my class, the percentage that finished was higher for men than women, but if I think now, for example, of physics, of the women who are in the department as personnel, of my promotion in my department (which I have been in for many years), I am there but after my promotion, There are also two women, that is, the number of women who left and became teachers was relatively high. Therefore, in physics degrees it hasn’t been noticed very much.

JOBS
After finishing your degree, did you continue studying or did you start working?
Well, since I had always worked, I continued working. After finishing my degree, what happened is that, when I was in my fifth year, then the bachelor's degree was five years, when I was a fifth year professor of atmospheric physics, we had already been hired to do research, therefore, since I finished the fifth year doing research, I then stayed in college for another year, doing what was called a dissertation. And later, I won a State scholarship to do my doctoral thesis, therefore, I have always stayed in the same place. I have always worked at the university.

Did it take you long to get to where you are now?
Very much. This is where the problem arises. Because one thing is a women who manages to finish and another, is the scissor effect, that is, in the universities the number of women who enter is higher, the number of women who withdraw from their degrees is no longer so high, but, as We are being promoted, it is decreasing and there are more senior positions for men, more male professors and when you reach those levels there are fewer women. So, if it is true that it has cost me a lot to get where I am now, I am now a professor of atmospheric physics, I have had to fight a lot, because the university has never supported us and the university, for many years and still now, consider women as second, we serve the coffee, they have literally told me that. When I was doing my doctoral thesis with a congress, they told me that my place was to serve coffee, therefore, yes, it has cost me a lot.

PROBLEMS WITH JOBS
If you can tell us any anecdote or experience that you have had?
Anecdotes, like what? Give me an example.

Things like this example of the coffee
From the point of view of women, I have many anecdotes that today people would be scandalized by, going to international meetings and suffering harassment on the street, by very important people, not only from here, I mean but important at a European level, so this more than an anecdote is a lesson about what it should not be, because we continue to see women as, I do not know whether to say it, as women, that is, as nothing. Now that I am a professor, I will tell you an anecdote that happened to me recently, to be precise last week, it is not necessary to go any further with the issue, to the media. If you go to the media and they interview you and there is a round table, I have experienced this and the people who were there have told me, men are given more time to talk and more questions than a woman. Last week, we had a departmental calçotada (lunch) in the department and I asked a colleague a question about how we can explain on an atomic scale the problem of the greenhouse effect, how can we justify that carbon dioxide is what absorbs radiation In a long wave, he began to tell me, another colleague joined us and a second later, this colleague, this teacher was looking
and explaining my question to the other colleague, and from outside I said loudly and other colleagues also said it. This has also happened to me on television, a lot at round tables and conferences, the time they normally give is superior for men. I also did a talk at the engineering college, about climate change and all the men went on and I was the last one and I couldn't speak, because all the men had been talking longer than they were planning.

Do you want to make a recommendation for future STEM girls?
The recommendation is most important, you must be sure to do something which you are excited about, you have to fight, but fighting does not mean fighting with others, that is, I am doing some studies, because I can do it. The second question is, I will go ahead no matter what those in my environment say why I want to pursue this degree or I want to dedicate myself to whatever it may be, it may be history, it may be science, it may be technology, but the first is I will move ahead. Third thing, we don't help each other like men, so help each other get ahead, no stepping on each other, we should help each other. And no, it is not to say, we must use the feminine when we speak, what it is about, is that when you get asked to participate in a congress it is because you are a good scientist, a good historian, a good artist not because you are a good woman. That happened to me two weeks ago on a radio program, directed by a woman that another woman wanted me to do and I couldn't go because I had many programs on the same day, whenever there is a difficult situation they call me and I go In the end, the lady told me on the phone, what a shame you do not want to come because we need a woman
and I said, I thought you called me because you considered that I knew about it, whether I was a woman or not, but I did not Say you needed a woman, because maybe you needed a woman who is not worth it, so we have to defend against that, we have to do what we want, nobody should force us to do one degree or another, but that our worth is as human beings despite that later we have other ways of being, we are different, because when we are asked to go to a place it is because of our worth.

Have you ever had any restrictions on your work?
Restriction at work ... I have had a lot of problems because of envy, because in the university world there are many envies, but restrictions, no, because it is also true that I have a lot of character and perhaps there have been restrictions imposed on me but I have ignored them. But, for example, problems like taking ten years to become a professor, yes. And many women are struggling and some have even died before they can become professors. But yes, they have got extra places for men, but for women we have never been helped.

After all these years of work, would you change jobs or are you happy to continue doing the same?
I love teaching, but I have to accept that with age you get more tired. I love receiving the students in my office and dedicating time to them, all the time it takes to be able to help them, therefore, I think that I would not change that, what I would change, are other points, such as the obligations that we are asked to fulfill by management today, I mean to say paperwork, nowadays you have to justify everything, everything is paperwork, I would change that because I like to study, explain, I like to be here with you but have to make justifications every time I go to a congress, for example, they ask me to send a photo as a sign that I have gone, explain the agenda of the congress, the events, a justification that we have paid the registration fee, all this is wasting time, I think everyone is asked for the same; but I would also like to have time again to dedicate myself to history and painting.

PERSONAL OPINION
Do you think that the society we live in is fair when regarding your work?

If it's fair ... the word fair is so complex, but in reality, I think not. In this case, not regarding my work, but first regarding the work of women in the university, because I continue to see that the directors are all men. I am one of the few female directors out there, they pay more attention to men, therefore, this is a problem that exists today and it is not fair. And then, the fact, for example, that teaching is not sufficiently valued and the position that teaching implies. In the university world, publishing articles is highly valued, but the task that the teacher has today is not valued, not only as a teacher but as a trainer of all the people who attend, so I think this is not fair. And then I think that there are many small injustices of
recognition, we are also in a society which is a lot about image and that recognizes people who have little knowledge, but have a lot of image, and people who have a lot of knowledge and who are in the background and this causes myths or misconceptions to be created, therefore, it is not fair. I believe that it is a society that it is very concerned with image and appearances.

Why do you think that in science, engineering, technology, and mathematics there are fewer women than men?
Let's see, in engineering degrees I have already told you that when I did the COU, the girls who did Science and Technology all went into engineering. I have a theory, but I could be wrong, which is an attractive subject, especially in engineering, that is, I think that in general this ability to invent mills I have the impression that men and women have it more other capacities, to carry day by day, extraction. For example, on the subject of science and on the subject of mathematics, we work better, because women have a very practical mindset, to get things done, therefore, there are many
women who decide to join a company when they finish their degree. But I know many more women scientists, who have not recognized their worth, that is as engineers. Therefore, I am not so concerned that it forces 50% of students in engineering to be women, but that a girl who wants to be an engineer is looked at differently, that is what worries me. But I think that some degrees have more boys, others have more girls and what we always have to do is open the same possibilities to everyone, whatever the sex. That is, teaching, my son teaches, there were very few boys and well, it is the same, boys should have the same possibilities as a girl. And there are engineering companies that are the same, because you can despise it, the typical phrase: you go to engineering to find a boyfriend, this was common. No, not that. But I am not in favour of forcing there to be a minimum number of women, we cannot force a person, we must facilitate. And in schools, you are doing this anyway, because you do not know yet to what you will dedicate yourselves to, however, it is necessary to open all possibilities for both boys and girls, but after each one goes his own way. The important thing is that the path you take must be 100%, to do well and 100% enthusiasm too.

Do you think that men had it easier or they had it easier at that time, to get a degree?
To get a degree? The men? Men have it easier, yes and to get promoted, yes and to be professors, yes. But to get a degree, that just depends on whether you study or not, and it kind of depends on studying, well ... it is proven that women study more than men, therefore, to get a degree itself, I don't think that they give notes to the boys, yes you have to be very careful and that should be very persecuted, everything that has to do with the abuse of teachers to students or comments to the girl who wears a very short skirt, there are teachers who still think they can give away marks in exchange for favours, this should be absolutely prohibited, and girls should be able to report it immediately. But grades are not given away nor do the boys have more ability to pass the degree. I think that in this case, when the degree starts, the women put in more effort, in general.

Do you think there are jobs, that unlike these there are few men and more women?
Well, nursing, for example. Everything that is in the field of human science, care, training. Also, the whole subject of teaching, are fields where there are few men. But I would say the same again, I have a nephew living in my house who is doing nursing and a son who is a teacher, they do what they want and it is also true that in schools, hospitals in this case, they do not make difference between gender, so that a man is a nurse or a teacher and all the others are women. But there are degrees that are more attractive to women than men.

Do you think this will change over the years?
There can be no more men, but in a teaching profession there will continue to be more women, this is my intuition, but I may be wrong. I think that in the teaching profession today there will continue to be more girls than boys, but before they were practically all girls. It may be that the number of boys doing a teaching degree goes up, but most will still be girls. I think it is a mostly female degree, because this degree allows you to do other things, such as have a family life or take care of others. And I think engineering will continue to be a mostly male egree, but with more girls than before. And the science field will be the most equal, I think.

 

Well, thank you very much for letting us do this interview.

Thank you very much for the interest.